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It doesn't matter if you are an external applicant, or career federal employee. There is such incredible incestuousness in internal hiring that even those more qualified internal applicants are passed up for positions and promotion. Not to say this is much different than the private sector, but the factors that discouage applicants the most are repeatedly brought up in forums such as this, and no one, I mean NO ONE ever seems to want to take the blame and make change. It seems the majority of federal supervisors are in their position because they were the most difficult to deal with and were/are the most disliked amongst their peers. If you are in a federal position and wish to advance, my advice to you is to become the best "yes-man" ever, and completely anger your peers into a frenzy of disdain...this will ensure your quick passage up the ranks.

FedUp  | Thursday, October 16, 2008 |  07:12 AM

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Here we go again! We will get a bunch of applicants, many will be hired, then the economy will turn around and the new government employees will run to the private sector to make more than their Federal salary. So it goes....

Veteran  | Saturday, October 11, 2008 |  10:21 PM

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The problem as I see it is that the way the job announcements are written, the only people qualified are those already in the positions!

So much is written about how the govt needs Contracting/Procurement people, yet those announcements require a level of understanding of the govt process that nobody outside the process can possibly have. Has nobody ever heard of OJT?

Currrent emp  | Friday, October 10, 2008 |  05:32 PM

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Isn't it a sad commentary, though, that it seems to take an economic meltdown to gin up enthusiasm for government jobs? The silver lining potential is indeed real, at least for the short term. But in the long run it could well make things worse, by further postponing the day when we'll have to get serious about reform.

Skepticus  | Friday, October 10, 2008 |  05:01 PM

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I have been trying to help my daughter with the complicated application process when applying for entry level jobs. She would be very qualified for any entry level clerical job and has even tried to get in the door through part-time positions only to be told that her application would not be considered because the number of veterans who applied prevented them from considering her. There has to be some type of compromise somewhere. I've basically told her to stop wasting her time and to keep looking at the private sector. The other problem with the government application process is the lack of consistency throughout government on how to apply. Some say to apply through USAJOBS while others tell you to apply part thru USAJOBS and part thru their own website. I'm just lucky I was hired by the federal government back in the 70's when you took tests for entry level jobs. If I had to go thru all this, I don't think I would have been hired, too much red tape.

Entry level?  | Friday, October 10, 2008 |  08:24 AM

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You are correct AF HR. I have only found two ways to hire anyone other than vetarans from the outside. That is the rare intern and co-ops. And don't get me wrong, I truly support hiring veterans. It just hurts when I find out I had sixty candidates and I had to select from only three veterans, who may or may not have been among the most qualified. Much as in the contracting world, this is statute driven and just as frustrating to federal managers.

Jennifer  | Friday, October 10, 2008 |  07:48 AM

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Actually, the increase in hits is due to us unfortunate employees who were injected into NSPS looking for a GS job we can transition back in to.

ORF  | Friday, October 10, 2008 |  12:02 AM

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I've seen so many comments in GovExec about how difficult it is for any external people to get into a gov job, especially DOD seems to not be able to reach those college grads and experienced people from private sector who would love to come work for us. The things the commenters say are not wrong. Folks, remember that our difficulties in hiring the breadth of people we'd like to see won't get resolved by "process streamlining" or more training for the HR troops, or even better intentions of management. The hinderances are written into LAW, especially where veterans' preference is concerned. If you want better results on Federal hiring, it will take a reexamination of the laws that could be changed and/or some policies resulting from law that could be amended. BUT - any move that is seen as a threat to Vet's preference in Fed employment will immediately get heavy pushback and probably will go nowhere. If the policy setters would take on this issue with the proper representatives of Veterans' interests and work out some compromise, we might get progress. As it is right now in our location, we don't have a prayer of reaching external applicants, especially at the entry levels. At higher levels, the predominance of former military, former contractors, and other who acutally have direct experience with our work tends to eclipse external applicants. It's not because of cronyism, Dan K, it's because of the direct experience they bring. As I said, it will take some serious legal and policy discussions to loosen these rules up.

AF HR  | Thursday, October 09, 2008 |  06:56 PM

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